I decided to get kinda pissed off, this evening. I read a post by G. Benedicto. He posted a reply and link to this guy, who’s decided to paint old-schoolers as a bunch of emotionally stunted, “fat-beards,” who like sandboxes because we’re incapable of giving a fuck about our friends. After leaving a bunch of comments on both posts, which were, I think, respectful and fair, if angry, I reminded myself, that this kind of shit was the reason I stopped posting on the WOTC boards. The reason that the OSR blogoverse, was such a breath of fresh air.
Gamers downing the OSR, is something that’s been really getting on my nerves, of late. I decided to ask myself why, so I would stop wasting my energy, getting pissed off over the opinions of strangers.
I really hate being looked down upon. I hate being seen as unworthy. I hate other people, being unfairly belittled, as well. It ties in to some deep seated issue of mine, about being unfairly made to lose face. In my more mystical or whimsical moments, I connect this to a Chinese incarnation, though I don’t know if that’s actual or symbolic.
Regardless, I think I’ve seen enough of how and why I was choosing to act, to take the charge out of this particular manifestation of the issue. I really do, have better things to do, than to get myself all worked up by how people I don’t even know, see me and the community I’m involved with.
I’d rather go here and remember what I love about sharing with my fellow gamers.
Wow. That fellow really crushed the old school style of play. I'm not sure what the point of his tirade was. I never get why people have to hate on one another.
ReplyDeleteIn happier news, thanks for the link. :)
I'm pretty sure Fausty feels the same way you do about being looked down on, James. I'm not sure what I have to do to make him feel the love. A fruit basket maybe?
ReplyDeleteHi Christian! You're welcome.
ReplyDeleteHi G. Benedicto. Yeah, I think so, as well.
I hear ya. I read the 'here' link and posted this comment to the guy:
ReplyDelete----
I would say that this is probably fine with me if you start off with “some old schoolers”… in which case I guess you are probably right… in some cases. But most old schoolers that I know don’t fit this description, and are not so much anti-story as anti-ForcedStory. Which are too different things, really. I play a rather traditionalist form of homebrew and the stories the players contrive through their actions are often quite interesting in their own right, and make rather nice little stories. Here’s a link to a latest chapter from a recent game test of my new (traditionalist style) homebrew rules, in case you’re interested…
http://elthosrpg.blogspot.com/2010/02/rescue-on-black-hill.html
----
Obviously the guy had an agenda with his post. He went down a laundry list of buttons that he felt needed to be pushed, and he pushed and pushed and pushed some more. One word -- TROLL. He has chummed the waters and now the sharks are taking the bait.
ReplyDeleteJames, your frustration is shared and it is warranted. Just remember there are people in this little community of ours that "get it" and there are people out there who never will. It all comes down to opinion and conjecture.
Personally, I have been involved with this hobby for damn near 30 years now. I suspect our gaming background is almost identical. Do we love the game we grew up with and still respect the founding fathers of this hobby? Hell yes! This is not a respect that comes about because we want to be part of the OSR. We are the OSR, and it is our respect and love for the game that fuels our passion. If saying this makes me a "fat bearded know-it-all" then so be it. Truth be told, I am guilty on all three counts! :-)
I say we should ignore those who try to lure us into this kind of internet bullshit. Let us both stop wasting our time on this guy and get back to blogging about the hobby that we both love.
Talk to you soon,
Shane
Shane, you're probably on the money re: trolling. There are a few dicks among fans of the Old School, no doubt, but by and large I think most of us are pretty laid back, friendly dudes.
ReplyDelete[rant]
ReplyDeleteGood gravy. That guy's post just reeks of the kind of Wannabe Intellectual Solipsisms I've come to despise after five years of working at B&N where so many of our customers are solipsistic wannabe intellectuals. The trail of logic is this:
1. I'm smart.
2. This is the kind of gaming I like.
3. If you like a different style of gaming you are not as smart as I am.
Spare me from intellectuals. I hate their kind of thinking because they never seems to truly understand (or even recognize) that experience is far more a motivating factor in people's decision-making than IQ. Just think about how many brilliant guys you know who are also complete idiots in any area outside of theoretical concerns. Hell - we're ALL smart guys; it's why we're attracted to this hobby to begin with.
My personal experience is that metastory campaigns make for reading that's just as adolescent and boring and old-fashioned stupid as any dungeon crawl can seem when a grognard tries to put a session into prose. Some guy wants his story to be a soap opera like Elfquest, fine. Me, I'm a Conan guy (and Howard's prose is infinitely better than Wendy and Richard Pini's coule ever hope to be). Bring on the freakin' giant snake and let me roll!
[/rant]
Crap. knw metter hou meny times yu trie to edit a comment befor hitting [ENTERR], you alwayz mis somthing. "they never seems" shuld bee "they never seem." hoap thiz clers things up.
ReplyDeleteDouble-crap! "coule" should be "could".
ReplyDeleteSee, this is what I get for staying up when I'm under the weather. Screw it - I'm goin' to bed.
I reminded myself, that this kind of shit was the reason I stopped posting on the WOTC boards.
ReplyDeleteThanks for reminding me too. :)
Spare me from intellectuals. I hate their kind of thinking because they never seems to truly understand (or even recognize) that experience is far more a motivating factor in people's decision-making than IQ. Just think about how many brilliant guys you know who are also complete idiots in any area outside of theoretical concerns.
So many University professors are like this. Brilliant guys... can't change a light bulb. LITERALLY. :)
So many brilliant programmers who can barely function like a regular adult in social situations.
My personal experience is that metastory campaigns make for reading that's just as adolescent and boring and old-fashioned stupid as any dungeon crawl can seem when a grognard tries to put a session into prose. Some guy wants his story to be a soap opera like Elfquest, fine. Me, I'm a Conan guy (and Howard's prose is infinitely better than Wendy and Richard Pini's coule ever hope to be). Bring on the freakin' giant snake and let me roll!
That's exactly it.
While reluctant to wade into the "OSR vs. Anything" argument I will say that in my experience each side has it's extreme proponents and that's what gives rise to these posts... plenty of times I've read OSR stuff and felt rather unwelcome and looked down on for not being of that ilk. (I'm not exactly new school, but I am closer to it than old school...) But yes, the best weapon against the internet troll is to ignore it... fighting it with fire just makes it stronger.
ReplyDeleteAnd... I like Elfquest. *hrumph*
(and my word verification was "ranti" heh)
anonynos:
ReplyDeleteWell, slap my face. I didn't think anyone would even remember Elfquest. I keep forgetting that most of us tend to have entered gaming during the same decade.
'Cept maybe for for you, whippersnapper. And . . .
. . . hey, wait. [counts on fingers]
Oh, dang it!
I'm OLD!
What am I doing commenting on D&D posts for? I should be in Florida driving a sports car I can't afford while wearing nothing but Speedoes and large gold chains!
[screams. logs out]
Thanks to everyone, for joining in the discussion!
ReplyDeleteYou know, I don't view the negative comments as pseudointellectual. Some of the points he made were made well.
ReplyDeleteBut writing that 'sandbox games are not popular for role-plyers'? 'The more I get away from the Hardcore community, the less people want Sandbox and randomness'....and my favorite, describing non gamers in contrast to gamers,as, "Now, something these people have in common is that they aren’t dysfunctional nerds, and they value coherent, wholesome social interactions."
I don't play D&D anymore. I wrote my own rules decades ago, due to issues I had with the system. But I still identify strongest with the OSR due to the type of game it is suited best to create.
Finally, many of us who have very old settings and long campaigns have created more real narrative and collaborative story than any short term game could ever do, but with the GM, and the dice, both interjecting their two cents as long as the players were adult enough to deal with it. Calling our games 'Story-free' is plainly incorrect and insulting.
Kep writing, I'll keep reading.
The sweetest revenge is to ignore him.
ReplyDeleteNothing worse for a troll's ego than being ignored.
I agree with Paladin, screaming back at screaming isn't worth the effort and only serves to steer oneself off course.
ReplyDeleteI guess I'm just mystified. Why does anyone care about what other gamers do in their own game? Game and let game, I say!
Part of the great beauty of the OSR is that it embraces ideas from wherever they spring forth. Planet Algol is a good example of such.