I'm feeling really, really ornery today, so I'm bitching about a couple of pet peeves.
Which is cool. Your game. Have fun. It's just that it's a crock of shit, based on ignorant ideas of male sexuality.
Ask a professional soldier what he would do if some wild haired woman with a sword was trying to run him through. He'd kill her. And sex would be the last thing on his mind.
That's partially because mentally healthy people, just don't get turned on, or think about sex, when someone, even a shapely someone, is trying to skewer them with a sword. In a healthy person the survival instincts and self-respect will trump the libido, quite decisively.
In short, healthy people won't mix the emotional and imaginative realities, which are part of sexual excitation, with real live violence. Just as a healthy person wouldn't commit a rape, they also wouldn't be turned on by seeing someone else doing so. I'd better mention that I'm not talking about physiological phenomenon which may manifest, under certain violent conditions. There are some other sticky wickets as well, beyond the scope of my current rant.
Considerations, concerning the kind of mentally and emotionally fucked-up individuals who set Red Sonja down her road of bloodshed in the first place, are also beyond the scope of this post.
Aside from the above, men can and do control their libido, all the time. Ask a male gynecologist how he deals with doing what he does. He'll tell you straight-up: "I just turn it off."
I've "turned it off," for reasons a lot less dire, than someone being out for my blood.
2. Conan vs. Wizards. One of the old arguments some gamers like to bring up about D&D is that MU's are too powerful, compared to Fighters. They sometimes invoke the mighty name of Conan and speak of how Conan took on and slew powerful wizards, all the time. So, the reasoning goes, their Fighter should be able to do the same thing. Leaving aside the validity of the Fighter vs. MU debate, the Conan argument is, you guessed it, a crock of shit! At least, if you're reading R. E. Howard.I'm just too damn lazy and obstinate this evening, to pull out any references, but off the top of my head:
- The Hour of the Dragon - Conan's priest friend takes care of Xaltotun, while he handles the more mundane foes.
- The Scarlet Citadel - Conan's new ally, the sorcerer Pelias takes out the baddie sorcerer, Tsotha-lanti.
- The People of the Black Circle - Khemsa's magic belt, is the only thing that protects Conan from the evil sorceries of the Black Circle wizards. Their magic utterly fails to touch the mighty Cimmerian, leaving him free to hack & slash, at will!
There must have been at least one story, where Conan straight-up kills a wizard, without aid from another spellcaster. Damned if I can think of one, though. Sorcerers were dangerous as all hell, in Mr. Howard's Hyboria!
Yeah, Conan was often getting his ass handed to him by wizards. The Cimmerian spent a good amount of time fearing for his life, thanks to sorcery. It was his cunning and precise application of savagery that saved his skin.
ReplyDeleteConan did confront a wizard, toss a dagger and kill him instantly, when he finally caught up to him. It was an REH one (where the sorcerer summoned a camel-like demon to pull his chariot), but I can't think of the title at the moment. However, I don't think M-Us are too powerful compared to Fighters in D&D... I'm just pointing out the case you can't think of. :) It doesn't read like something that would happen all the time though.
ReplyDelete@ Anon - You're going to make me hunt for that one! :) It's not ringing any bells.
ReplyDeleteWhen you consider all the restrictions on spellcasting and on the magic user class in general they dont seem nearly as scary... catch one off-guard and they're nearly helpless. Nothing like throwin' a sack over a wizards head to take the fight out of them haha!
ReplyDeleteAnd that's the thing. A wizard who you've successfully got the drop on is little more than a punching bag in a dress; the key to survival as a wizard is ensuring that said drop is never gotten. See also 'shooting Jedi in the back'.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, chainmail bikinis are demeaning to everyone involved.
If I recall correctly, in "Red Nails", Conan and Valeria kill a couple of sorcerers without recourse to any magical help.
ReplyDeleteChainmail bikinis are about as functional on a battlefield as "sexy nurse" outfits are in a hospital.
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking the same thing, faoladh. I'll have to re-read it.
ReplyDelete"Conan did confront a wizard, toss a dagger and kill him instantly, when he finally caught up to him. It was an REH one"
ReplyDeleteYep, the story is titled "Black Colossus" and Conan kills the undead sorcerer Thugra Kothan by throwing his sword and impaling him before he could toss a poisonous black scorpion that he was holding in his hand.
A key distinction about magic in Conan, though, is that it's weird. It's foreign and mysterious.
ReplyDeleteI still recall the description of a wizard twisting his fingers into impossible positions during the casting of a spell. Read whatever story that was when I was maybe 7, and it stuck so hard in my head that it's influenced how I think of magic ever since.
Magic users might not feel so powerful in comparison to fighters (inasmuch as they're considered to be in the first place, which was never much of a thing in my games) if they were as hard to become as, say, ADnD Bards. But when a player can basically roll up a sorcerer with the same effort he'd make a powerful rogue/barbarian, a lot of that mystery gets lost.
Because I don't recall Conan every saying "Oh no, this is a 7th level wizard and thus has access to powerful spells I need fear!" He'd go "Wizards, puagh!" without recourse to considering what spells they were holding in their book.
Well yeah, the whole chain-mail bikini thing is ridiculous. But apparently it sells.
ReplyDeleteThe way a chain-mail bikini would work is that it would make your opponent, who is sizing you up before the fight, to not take you seriously. Of course, once the swords starting swinging, that would soon be out the window. However, if an opponent doesn't take a skilled opponent seriously at the beginning of the fight, the fight is over before it begins.
And many men will have some hesitancy when attacking a woman in general, as that isn't considered "honorable."
So I could see it providing at least some advantage if you're talking about a duel with an unsuspecting opponent, but in a protracted fight/mass melee, particularly against villainous scum, yeah, the bikini-wearer dies.
But really, is the idea of a chain-mail bikini any more far out than egalitarian societies existing in pseudo-medieval eras? It's all sexism vs. grrrl power.
But no, I don't draw women in chain-mail bikinis, except to point out that such things are absurd. =)
While you guys are being realistic with your views of the chainmail bikini, I'll be going home with the red headed cosplay cutie whose wearing it proudly. ;)
ReplyDeleteIt's called...wait for it...fiction. Moreover it's fantasy fiction. Yes it's silly. Unlike all the serious demons and dragons and magic sparks flying all over the place. THAT stuff makes sense.
When I gamed with the ex-wife, you would never catch her characters wearing anything so outlandish, unprofessional, unrealistic and just downright impractical.
Her best friend...all the time. She once said, "It's an RPG, I get the body I want so I can wear what I want."
It's 2011. I can't believe we're still up-in-arms about a character from the 70's. Flexible mindsets.
What BA said.
ReplyDelete"You're going to make me hunt for that one! :) It's not ringing any bells."
ReplyDeleteBlack Colossus, though it is a sword not a dagger.
Hey, it's not just fantasy either. There are plenty of historical examples of men going into battle not just wearing skimpy garb, but actually buck naked. And it was absolutely intended as a psychological device--freak out the opponent with your reckless bravery, that sort of thing.
ReplyDeleteOf course, I completely agree that the rationale of "it'll turn on the guys she's fighting and make their pants too tight to fight in" is completely ridiculous, but there is historical precedent for using (near)-nudity as a device of intimidation on the battlefield.
That settles it. The next time I get into a sword-fight, I'm wearing a chain mail speedo! =)
ReplyDelete@sirlarkins
ReplyDeleteIt was the Ancient Olympics, and pankratia participants (an ancient Olympic sport similar to today's Mixed martial bouts, like the UFC) participated nude. That's right, nude dudes beating the hell out of each other.
I don't know about distracting male opponents on the battlefield but Red-hot Sonja's chainmail bikini sure distracted me from getting around to reading this blog post.
See also the Celts and Picts, who were known to go into battle "sky clad".
ReplyDeleteThe Galatian tribe [Celts] fought naked:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/dba45.html
And then there were the Gaestati - whom I understand were some sort of [mercenary] cult.
I have no problem with chainmail bikini's personally. I don't feel any need to justify them beyond "they're sexy".
Personally, I have less issue with that in the Conan/Red Sonya comics than I do with costumes dating from the 16th or 17th century showing up. By that I mean the basically pirate garb worn by the buccaneers - you know: the boots with the folded over tops (like musketeers), puffy-sleeved shirts, etc.
I mean, come on, just because they're "pirates" doesn't mean they come from the Spanish Main!
The thing about naked warriors in history is they often had a full-length tower shield, so they weren't completely at the mercy of things like arrows and javelins. Still, I'm fine with mail bikinis in a pulpy cheesecake Heavy Metal-esque fantasy - I just don't want to see them in more gritty settings, like the Hyborian Age.
ReplyDeleteWhat a coincidence: I've been working on a post that addresses this sort of alleged "Conan cliche" (most surprising of all is the number of women Conan actually has sex with), and the "Conan kills the wizard" is one of them.
You have Xaltotun of "The Hour of the Dragon," Tsotha-Lanti of "The Scarlet Citadel," (though since Conan decapitates him before Pelias takes over this could be an arguable example) the titular "People of the Black Circle" accounted for, as well as Thugra Khotan of "Black Colossus." To extend that to other stories:
Stories where Conan kills the evil sorcerer
"Rogues in the House" - Conan flings a stool at the Red Priest Nabonidus' head, though since Nabonidus' abilities seem to be technological, it's arguable whether he truly counts as a sorcerer rather than a mad scientist.
"Queen of the Black Coast" - while the Winged One might be too beastly to consider a "sorcerer," he does use magic, and Conan does defeat him with some timely intervention.
"Beyond the Black River" - Conan kills Zogar Sag's doppelgänger with an axe, which in turn kills Zogar Sag.
"The Man-Eaters of Zamboula" - Conan kills Totrasmek through stealthy sword-in-the-back.
The Hour of the Dragon - out of the many evil sorcerers in this story - Xaltotun, Orastes, Altaro, Thutothmes and the priests of Set, the four Khitans, Akivasha - Conan only actually kills one. That is the leader of the four Khitans, after the other three were killed by Thutothmes and his men, themselves slain in the process. He kills him by breaking his staff and decapitating him.
"Red Nails" - Conan kills Tolkemec, who turns up at the 11th hour, but Valeria kills Tascela, the primary villain of the story.
Stories where Conan doesn't kill the evil sorcerer
"The Phoenix on the Sword" - not only does Conan not kill Thoth-Amon, or fight him, or encounter him, he doesn't even know of his involvement in the story.
"The God in the Bowl" - Thoth-Amon is offstage, and again, the two don't meet.
"The Tower of the Elephant" - Conan is instrumental in setting up the circumstances by which the evil sorcerer Yara is destroyed, but he doesn't do anything more than setting a red jewel on a table.
"Xuthal of the Dusk" - Thalis is taken out of the story by Thog, the Cthulhoid monster of the tale.
"The Pool of the Black One" - the sorcerous leader of the Black Ones survives to the end of the story, where Conan and his party have no choice but to escape.
"A Witch Shall Be Born" - Valerius, the romantic lead of the story, kills the evil sorceress Salome. Conan dispatches her lieutenant, Constantius.
The Hour of the Dragon - see above.
Personally, I have less issue with that in the Conan/Red Sonya comics than I do with costumes dating from the 16th or 17th century showing up. By that I mean the basically pirate garb worn by the buccaneers - you know: the boots with the folded over tops (like musketeers), puffy-sleeved shirts, etc.
I mean, come on, just because they're "pirates" doesn't mean they come from the Spanish Main!
That's pretty much how Howard described his pirates, though. That's the Hyborian Age in general, a melting pot of history.